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Thursday, May 18, 2006

I was not "ready to rumble"

So, I nearly got into a fight the other night. Well, a verbal fight anyway. I was at a party this past weekend. We were having a good time, eating food and dancing to silly music. As the night wore on, we all decided to give up dancing for some relaxing conversation.

I was sitting next to a guy I had never met before. He worked for a fantasy sports website, designing mailers for fantasy football. I asked him if he was a bookie, and he said no. Hey, whatever pays the bills, right? So, we began a pleasent conversation about football.

If you don't already know, I'm from Green Bay, Wisconsin, and I know football. I could tell that he was surprised to see a girl hold her own in a football conversation. But, we didn't have any problems at first.

I don't remember exactly how the conversation went, but we began to chat about how football is better than professional basketball these days, because it hasen't yet been totally corrupted by the "thuggary" that is so prevelant in the NBA. (I swear, sometimes I think I'm watching a music video rather than a basketball game some days.) And while the NFL defenately has its share of thugs who are only in it for themselves and the glory they can incur, there are a lot of teams who genuinly play for the team, and their combined victory. The Pack is an excellent example of this.

No sooner was this statement out of my mouth, than his eyes lit up with the fury of hell. He started on a rampage about how "Brett Favre is ruining that team and the whole game, and the Packers are a terrible team and here's why" etc. Feeling like this was not appropriate to the seemingly nice convo we were just having, I simply said that I didn't want to get into it. It was late, and I was tired, and I don't really feel I need to justify my home-town team love to some clown I just met.

To my distress, HE KEPT ON TALKING! He simply WOULD NOT STOP until he made his point. I must have said "I don't want to talk about it" five or six times to him. Literally. Finally, I just sat and stared at him until he was done. I gave him that courtesy, even though he wasn't showing me any. After a minute, he stopped and stared back at me. The rest of the conversation went like this:

Me: "Are you done?"
Him: "Yes."
Me: "Good."
Him: "Don't you want to say anything back?"
Me: "I TOLD YOU THAT I DON'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT."
Him: ".... Why?"
Me: sigh....

Weird right? I don't know what propelled him to begin to act like such a jackass. A friend said that he was probably intimidated that a girl knew so much about football, and needed to "assert dominance" by turning into a macho prick and trying to verbally crush me. It makes sence: He wasn't trying to change my viewpoint on the Pack, he was simply trying to tell me that he was right and I was a moron for the viewpoint he perceived I held (though I hadn't actually rendered an opinion on the Pack, all I said was that I was from Green Bay and that the pack didn't have any thug, superstars on the team). But, all he ended up doing was eliminating any respect I had for him.

I had thought that he was just passionate about football, but does that really give him the right to completely disreguard my position in our "conversation" and hijack the entire deal for himself?

I'll probably just stick with the "he's an insecure, macho prick" theory. Any thoughts?

19 Comments:

  • At 11:53 AM, May 19, 2006, Blogger chen said…

    I agree with your assessment...although in all fairness I have gotten into it with a few Wolves-haters in my time (namely my dad who just likes to poke fun at my love for the game) but have never disregarded their desire to STOP the convo...definate vote for prick.

     
  • At 1:02 PM, May 19, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    was there beer involved? maybe he's a belligerent drunk.

    but that's no excuse for being an ass... he was obviously very interested in proving you wrong and proving himself right, and when that happens people sometimes forget that "discussion" is a two-way street.

    way to stand your ground :) how did it finally end? did you just walk away (a la kelly clarkson), or did he finally get the hint?

     
  • At 2:31 PM, May 19, 2006, Blogger Sam said…

    Wow, he's a stupid moron. He could've had you but "mm-mm" (head swirl) step off, foo. Way to be a true lady in the face of a mentally defective little man.

     
  • At 3:45 PM, May 19, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Chen,

    I am truly glad that we both love the wolves. That is yet another reason why we'll be good roomates. (Just don't go getting married on me in a year's time...)

    Nicole,

    There was a well-stocked bar at the party. I'm sure he had a drink or two. Since I just met him, I really couldn't gage if he was drunk or not. But, is it really an excuse? I'm of the mind to believe that he's still a jerk, deep down, even if he surpresses it when sober.

    Sammy,

    Thank you! Its sad, but I actually wondered if I should have been more respectful to him after I had left. I really need to stop this pesky "compassion" deal and be more of a hard ass. :)

    Oh, and he never could have had me. ;)

     
  • At 10:33 AM, May 22, 2006, Blogger Jordan said…

    I'm not sure how I missed this post earlier....

    Anyway, that guy is a jerk. And pretty dumb. And probably insecure in his knowledge.

    That said, his stupidity had nothing to do with the fact that you are a girl. He would have reacted the same way to a guy who said what you did. No offense to the perpetrator of the "macho-asserting-dominance-because-you're-a-girl" theory, but it is used far too often in life. In fact, generally a male doesn't feel the need to assert dominance over women, but rather over other men. Men compete with each other, and much less so with women. Instead, I think a better theory is "stupid-jerkface-is-way-too-passionate-about-something-that-doesn't-matter-and-it's-probably-because-a-packers-fan-beat-him-up-in-3rd-grade" theory.

     
  • At 11:06 AM, May 22, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    If you were male, Laura, (which I am glad you are not) you would have found out what his team of choice was and attacked it. You gotta bring guys like this down to the same level that he thinks you are at--if you can bring him lower than he can bring you then you win. That is how it works. If his team is the super bowl winner then you call him a bandwagon fan. That is the ultimate in sports name-calling. If he doesn't live in the town of his team (and never has) you got him. If he lives anywhere around here you got him as well--the vikes have their holes wide open for attack. Sarcasm is your best tool here. You should have stuck with your NBA thug mentality and attacked the vikes with it...

     
  • At 11:09 AM, May 22, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    you should have said something like the vikes are a wannabe basketball team that thinks they can play football...

     
  • At 12:30 PM, May 22, 2006, Blogger Laura Ibsen said…

    Hmmm... so Jordan thinks he wasn't trying to compete with me, while Brett thinks he may have been....

    I'm honestly really glad some guys responded, because this situation was truly baffeling to me.

    Jordan,

    If he wasn't trying to compete with me (not trying to pick a fight with me, or to somehow prove that his point of view was correct), perhaps we should change it to the "this-guy-has-absolutely-no-clue-about-social-rules-of-conduct-and-he's-not-scoring-any-points-that-way-and-any-Packer-fan-could-beat-him-up" theory.

    Brett,

    I am also glad I'm not a guy. Thanks for the rules about male fighting - I think I'll just stick to the female "I don't feel like wasting my time on your sillyness" stance. :)

    Nicole,

    I realize that I didn't answer your question (sorry). I think we were still sitting by each other, but we found different people to talk to. I was getting really tired, so I went off to the back bedroom to put my head down for a little while. I'm a morning person, so I tend to wind down throughout the day. After a while, I'm just done. But, I love social stuff and I love being at parties, so if I can put my head down for just a minute, I can usually perk back up for more party fun. It probably looks like I'm drunk, but I never am (and never have been).

     
  • At 6:34 PM, May 22, 2006, Blogger Chris Hill said…

    This is funny. I was going to write about how it had nothing to do with the fact that you're a girl and he's a guy, but then Jordan wrote that! So I agree w/ Jordan completely.

    I also agree with Brett and I think the issue is that he noticed your knowledge of the sport, and switched into male-male-sports-debate mode.

    Men have very little desire to get into fights with women. Most men will walk away if they're in a fight w/ a woman, so I'm pretty sure your femininity had nothing to do with it.

    He treated you as if you were "one of the guys" and was looking for a heated debate. In this scenario, a guy will not necessarily walk away from a fight because he is treating you as if you're another guy. Rather, he may desire a fight just like he might with a man.

    You played it classy and called his bluff, which just made him more angry. He wanted you to fight to see who could win. Men also do this to test each other to see who is really stronger. Anyway, he was a jerk for beating up on a girl.

    P.S. I have to agree w/ your NBA analysis vs. NFL. Football is better anyway.

     
  • At 6:40 PM, May 22, 2006, Blogger Chris Hill said…

    Another point, to your comment about it being silly. Yeah, this guy was a jerk. But men need competition in general. It is not silly for men. In fact, it is vital to men becoming men. Sure it can get out of hand. But men need to challenge each other. It's a way of toughening ourselves so that we can be strong (to protect women and children, for instance). A society w/o strong men will come to ruin.

     
  • At 11:15 AM, May 23, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    You see, I knew there would be trouble thanks to the outfit selections of the night.

    Let me explain: that day, I had two graduation parties, one going away party, and one "just because" party to go to. It was rather chilly out, so I wore jeans, a woman's button-down shirt, and a v-neck, grey sweater over it.

    This outfit selection was fine for the other parties, but then when I was heading over to the "just because" party (last party of the night), I was worried that the outfit wouldn't be appropriate enough. I asked the girls I was going with, and they said it looked really good and to not change. So, I trusted them.

    The problem: they were all wearing cute "girly" tops and I was not. Soon after arriving, I noticed that all the girls were wearing girly tops, and ALL the guys were wearing button-down shirts.

    All went well at first, then (because of the dancing) I decided to toss the sweater and just go with the button down (women's!) shirt.

    And this guy thought I was "another guy... a man". Sadly, this isn't the first time this has happened. I've had guys tell me I look like a man before. Last Halloween, one guy kept yelling "Are you a dude? You look like a dude? Oh, watch out! The dude wants to leave." Then he kept hitting me with a tambourine when I walked past and knocked all the stuff out of my hands that I was holding.

    Very insulting. Very depressing.

    And Chris, I'm not saying that how God made men is silly. I'm saying, don't bring it to my doorstep. Its not how God created women, so its silly to me (as a girl, though people seem to not be able to pick up on that). I seem to recall a huge 100+ comment fight over on Jordan's blog about it, which you know that I read and responded to. So, I guess I'm saying that "I don't want to talk about it". :)

     
  • At 3:22 PM, May 23, 2006, Blogger Chris Hill said…

    Laura,

    I'm not saying you should be part of the male competition. In fact, I'm saying you shouldn't. But you should also be careful when saying it is silly. That is like me saying girls hugging all the time is silly. I'm saying it is not silly for men to be competitive like that, although he was just stupid for trying to engage you in a purely male activity.

    Also, I didn't mean to imply you LOOKED like a man (sorry if I did - I don't think that's what you're saying, but I just wanted to make sure). It's that you had knowledge that is generally more man-like in nature (i.e., football knowledge). There is absolutely nothing wrong with this. He just switched to male-male mode, though, which was stupid of him to do, although I can understand why.

    I hope this clarifies.

     
  • At 4:27 PM, May 23, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    I never said that the whole male competition thing is silly. I said that him trying to have it with me makes it silly. Its the same as if some girl was trying to hug you twelve times withing one hang-out session. You would get very uncomfortable and think that she was behaving unacceptably. That's the way I felt about him.

     
  • At 4:38 PM, May 23, 2006, Blogger Chris Hill said…

    Ok, that makes sense. Yeah, it was silly/stupid for him to do that.

     
  • At 12:07 PM, May 24, 2006, Blogger Jordan said…

    I think I probably agree with everyone here but I'm using a different definition of "compete." I don't think the guy was trying to "compete" in the sense of wanting to win something or to prove he is better/stronger/smarter/whatever. Instead I think he was just advocating something he was passionate about because he really believed in it. Maybe I'm wrong, I'm only basing this on the way that I am. When I debate someone politically, as an example, it's not because I care about proving anything or showing off knowledge or trying to "win," instead it's me trying to advocate what I believe to be true (of course, this means I'm making the often errant assumption that people actually care what's true). In any case, he was stupid and, whether he was competing or not, he proceeded in a stupid way. You did well.

    (As an inconsequential correction, only the first half of those 100+ comments on my blog were focused on male/female stuff and the rest was focused on role of government.)

     
  • At 3:17 PM, May 24, 2006, Blogger Chris Hill said…

    Jordan,

    Excellent point. Thus, this guy was passionate about what he believed, and desired some resistence or agreement to what he was saying. Laura, you seemed apathetic (even if you weren't) after showing some interest, which made him angry. That is why he wanted response. He wanted you to care as much as he did.

    I think a couple things were happening, including the male-male competition thing. But Jordan I think you make an excellent addition to understanding this guy's reaction.

     
  • At 4:40 PM, May 24, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    I'm glad I can leave comments even though everything is in Spanish. I am able to do this - not because i can understand it - but because i know which buttons and spaces are for this and that. Unless this message never gets posted...then I don't. Next time just tell him that you think David Meggett was the best punt returner in NFL history and see what he says.
    and i can't remember my password. so this is mark in guatemala

     
  • At 4:48 PM, May 24, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Mark! How's everything going? Thanks for writing in - next time I will try that. I may see him on Monday, as I am going to cheer Molly and Cristina on in a race. Some of the people from the party are going to be there as well - nice ones that I like. But, it will be interesting to see if this joker shows up. No worries - I'm sure I will handle myself in a way that befits a lady. :)

     
  • At 4:19 PM, July 01, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Excellent way of handling yourself around the 'machismotic bundle of insecurity that some would refer to as a man'. This reminds me of a bit by Frank Caliendo, the comedian who impersonates John Madden on a regular basis: "You could cut off both of Brett Favre's arms and legs and he'd still be the greatest torso in football." :)

     

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